@Background Pony #7716
“Fair use is a doctrine in United States law that permits limited use of copyrighted material without having to first acquire permission from the copyright holder.”

First line of Wikipedia my dude, emphasis on “without having to first acquire permission”, meaning without consent. Maybe learn the most basic things about copyright law before making snarky comments.

Still living up to that duck badge, huh?

@Background Pony #7716
They aren’t excuses, they are valid reasons. Humans learn from “decades of hard work” by looking at people’s art and studying it intently to learn how to make their own art art so obviously computers should be allowed to in the same manner as well. Human artists can also style emulate with high degrees of accuracy at times so I am not sure why humans doing it is fine but AI is suddenly evil: https://derpibooru.org/tags/style+emulation

All work in general is built on the shoulders of everyone from before and the more open information is the better (see: the scientific community, open source software, etc).

I can’t do this anymore. This makes me horribly sick to my stomach.
People making excuses to have companies Scalp content that artist’s have spent decades creating.
Same for making excuses that have Discords servers literally making Huge databases for Artist “Tags” that Imamates/copies artists up to 100%. Y’all 100% support taking away from artists, even though it’s indirect.

@Background Pony #7716
You do not need to consent if it is used under fair use. Weather it is in this instance will be up to a court to decide, but for all intents and purposes AI over the past decade has been training on publicly accessible images and content via databases like this under fair use due to how transformative the end result is and how potentially valuable such research is to everyone.

Thinking you have godlike reign over your intellectual property is the same attitude megacorps have trying to throw DMCAs at people for criticizing their works (e.g. movies) using clips of said media or whatever to back up their points despite these also being under fair use. It is not a good attitude to have for creative freedom (which something like an art community benefits from heavily) and not something you should be defending. MLP artists for example regularly commit trademark infringement against Hasbro (not even covered under fair use, they can sue you at any time for drawing this art), but this is usually not enforced because everyone knows it’s not that big of a deal and its fine to use their work for inspiration to draw new things from. This does show why even the current copyright system is harmful to creative spaces though as Hasbro has indeed shut down big fan projects in the past even if it’s not that regular of a thing (F in chat for ya bois JanAnimations and Fighting is Magic).

@Background Pony #7716
To the best of my knowledge, the most popular discord servers for pony and furry AI stuff hard-ban attempts to copy specific artist’s styles, as well as further training on them. And they’re also free to use.

As for novelai and other commercial system, I think the general expectation is that once the technology and culture evolves, they will pull specifically only from art that’s been flagged by the artists as OK to use, public domain, and images they commission directly. If not for ethical reasons, then just for legal cover.

The majority of people working on and playing with these things just want to try to create something pretty, get an idea out of their head and visualize it. The people actively harassing artists or gloating about copying styles are, as far as I can tell, an extreme minority, and their motivation is mostly just to piss people off (and, if you’re conspiracy minded, maybe even to turn people against AI stuff as a reaction).

@Background Pony #7716
It’d actually be pretty helpful if you could share those generated images. So far, there hasn’t been any known pony images that have been posted that are overfit to known pieces, but it is an area of concern and having the examples would help in solving the problem. There have been images that use a specific image as an input by a user, and worse still ones that were on the Do Not Post list. Signatures though are incidental and undesired, as is overfitting in general. Why it adds signatures is because artists tend to place signatures in the same places so the model thinks a signature is a feature it should add.

I don’t think it’s practical or reasonable to expect people to rehost their images. But that is an option to some extent, at least as it pertains to pony. For other popular art, not so much as other users rehost images to other places.

Unless I don’t understand AI Gen correctly.

What I understand is that It takes information from those datasets and Generates random noise to create something brand new. I’m not concerned with AI itself, But every single work I have or any artist should not be in LAION-5B or any Stabble diffusion because we did not consent** to that. (I’ve already come across Pony AI content that has a really uncanny familiar signature to My Line in the middle)

Same with the discord servers That have “SPECIFIC” artist tags names to get art that generates art specifically like the OC Artist. That’s not okay. Especially when those AI users pay money for that. Both Art and AI Users get hugely cheesed. And Mostly Art Users because AI users Demand money for the Generations they have paid for. (Building from Artist’s data)
(Example being, Adoptables)

“you can remove yourself from the dataset by removing or rehosting the public facing images. For example your most upvoted picture here on derpi is in the dataset by way of bronibooru, however they’ve since closed down so actually it’s not in the data set at all. anyone who tried to pull it would get nothing.”

No, Idea how to do this.
My fault, I thought that site referenced multiple AI generators. Not Just LAION-5B.
I’m referring to Novelai/Midjourney/Nightcafe/every AI service out there.
It’s not right that alot of them are making huge profit off our creations.
This is not about the Ai users either, because they are also getting cheesed too.

@Background Pony #7716
It’s fine to have an opinion, I didn’t intend to criticize the position, but I think a lot of miscommunication in the area could be cleared up with better information. I do think having a database of artists that wish to not be trained on is in everyone’s best interest, but it’s a technical challenge that will take time to be developed.

@Background Pony #7716
Oh that’s an easy one. The site ‘Have I been trained’ is actually just a searchable version of the LAION-5B dataset, and the LAION-5B does not itself contain any images, merely a curated list of public facing urls to images on the internet. So it does not contain any links to private photos on a site like patreon but it would contain links to public facing archives [like imgur or a booru or whatever]. The best part about this system is because the dataset is essentially just a list of urls, you can remove yourself from the dataset by removing or rehosting the public facing images. For example your most upvoted picture here on derpi is in the dataset by way of bronibooru, however they’ve since closed down so actually it’s not in the data set at all. anyone who tried to pull it would get nothing.

So to answer your question, there is no private art from someone’s patreon being used, just what is posted publicly to be consumed by the public. It would be unfortunate if a patreon subscriber stole and reposted art publicly resulting in it being caught up by LAION but because LAION would only ever have the link to that stolen piece, any efforts to remove it will also remove it from the data set. Hell, technically you can use LAION to see if any of your patreons are leaking things they shouldn’t, isn’t that swell?

“ I don’t see how it’s negatively impacting you “

@Background Pony #7716
They do more than just pony stuff, and you probably already know that AI training looks at style types, how stuff is shaded, etc., not just “characters”.

Either way, they don’t like AI stuff and have been harassed by both pro and anti AI people, because of trolling, luddism, clout-chasing, idiocy, whatever. You don’t have to “turn them around”, not everyone has to agree with you or like what you like. Not everything has to be a fight or have some sort of “winner”.

@Background Pony #7716
I’m not sure what you’re on about tbh, going by your art on this site, you’ve got about 50 images that could be in the dataset and of those, many are characters that can’t be produced with any models I know of. It’s one thing to have a stance on something, but realistically here I don’t see how it’s negatively impacting you.

You feeling alienated in our fandom isn’t a unique thing and it goes both ways here if you look how you’re treating people that do like AI.

@Background Pony #7716
Respectfully, Good person. Unless you can explain how AI “doesn’t” take away from artists.
By all means all fandoms can hate me then, even the pony fandom I grew up in.

I legit can tell you right now, (On the site, Have I been trained) Almost every pony artist here is connected with stable diffusion. But I mean, Go ahead and explain how using other artist’s art from their patreon without consent is okay somehow?

@Background Pony #7716
I have never spoken to you before In my life, you have never spoken to me before in yours. I saw you and saw someone whose work I respected, you saw me and saw someone to be attacked. People are not ‘their community’, the world would be a much better place if we did not carry such false preconceptions around with us.

@Background Pony #7716
I’m really sorry you got hit by those sort of comments. There’s a gang of people, and I guess fans of their sort of “comedy”, that have made it the latest “meme” to seek out artists and antagonise them with comments like that.

It’s a continuation of how some years ago several “liberal” news sites talked about how truckers and coal miners and factory workers could easily be replaced by automation and should “learn to code”.

I don’t know if they believe it or not (I doubt it), but the main reason most of them are saying things like that is just to troll and get a rise out of artists, writers, and other creatives as part of a twisted culture / meme war.

(and I don’t really know if it does actually apply to your situation or if you were attacked by “genuine zealots”, of course, I can only say what I’ve observed myself; it’s ridiculous in either case)

@Background Pony #7716
Oh Really?

Your community Told me That My art would be mass produced and sold 100x less in value.
Also told me That You guys can rip anything from my art, And I’m the provoker?
Holy hell, dude.

@Background Pony #7716
All I’m saying is to try to understand why they might hold such a strong negative view. Most people with a strong negative position have some reason for it, some valid, some not so much.

I think this is clearly a case where it’s perfectly understandable why they’re sore on the subject, and being antagonistic (“letting yourself fall to hate”) is absolutely not going to help.

As you say, it was the anti-AI people attacking them, but don’t also make it the “pro”-AI people as well out of a kneejerk reflex.

We should all be celebrating access to new tools and techniques that allow people to be creative and express themselves, not trying to gloat about AI “replacing humans” or accusing people that just want to get an idea stuck into their head on paper of being “talentless thieves” or any of the other myriad of attacks and insults out there.

Life is miserable enough as it is and I don’t understand why so many want to make it even worse.

@Background Pony #7716
Suffering is not a license to spread misery, it is a shame if the people they thought were peers are now rejecting their work for no good reason but that doesn’t give one license to lash out alongside the hate mob in the hopes they’ll accept you again when you’re the abuser. I hope they find peace and acceptance for their work, I hope they even have their work successfully excised from training sets, I know at the very least there is work being done for pony on that front. But they need to understand it isn’t the AI people who are harassing them, they’re being lumped in with us and attacking us for the perceived unflattering comparison. direct your ire to those who other you, not your fellow victims.

@Cosmicscribbles
I don’t think most people consider the majority of AI generated stuff “art”, more like eye candy; here’s it’s classed lower than edited show screencaps. That said, there are definitely people that put effort into trying to create something that “looks right”, and it’s worth looking into videos or walkthroughs of how some of these things are made, because most of the stuff that “looks good” is actually several hours worth tweaking things with Photoshop/GIMP and no just “make pretty picture”.

There’s a lot the tools can offer down the line to streamline things for all artists.

@Background Pony #7716
Please understand that they’ve recently been accused of their own art, that they’ve been working on for a decade or more, being “AI generated”, simply because of how good it is. I think their reaction and dislike for AI stuff is fairly understandable given stupid accusations like that from clout-chasing luddites eager to jump on the latest trend.

Try to look into other people’s circumstances and experiences before accusing them of faults.

There’s no Point to talking here. You folks make me have to Authenticate My Art over and over and over again
Because All my art is in those datasets.

I’ve even offered You guys Free Art lessons and Y’all won’t take them to even make art better then this.
I don’t care for AI.
I just want my art out of it.

@Cosmicscribbles
Oh hey, you’re the Twiggles vs AI twiggles artist, I liked your work. shame you’re letting yourself fall to hate.

Wow, this is truly impressive! The level of technique, knowledge, inpainting, and clever tricks used is truly awe-inspiring. Bravo on an incredible job well done!