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Tagging Discussion » "prompter:" should change to "artist:" » Post 46

Tagging Discussion » "prompter:" should change to "artist:" » Post 45

Zealousmagician

@Admin
You seem to be saying that the rules are decided not based on the law but on what the admins find practical. @Annalee seemed to imply that the use of the word artist and the rule pertaining to it is based on EU law.
@Annalee
the word artist is special because it’s tied to the rules. […] in our rules under the EU Copyright Directive (and to some extent the DMCA), being an artist implies they have copyrightable works. So we have to handle their reports fairly and responsibly to protect the site, including the possibility of takedowns—which I’d really like to avoid. So, sorry for repeating myself, I’d really like to avoid us using that word in any way that doesn’t match how it’s used in the rules.
The only interpretation I can take from this moderator’s warning is that we shouldn’t equate prompters and editors to artists, with their justification being that it doesn’t work like that under EU copyright law. If that’s not what they were warning about, then I’m confused, because then no usage of the word “artist” in the discussion hasn’t matched how it’s used in the rules.
Posted Report

Creative Corner » Image Analysis and Feedback Thread » Post 20

AIPonyAnon

@Zerowinger
I hadn’t considered the lean being a little weird. He does look like he’s walking a little too leisurely to be leaning that much to turn.
The Noob based models seem much better at weapons and armor than other SDXL/1.5 models that I’ve used. The models in general also like to use cutiemarks in places where you might find an emblem.
Posted Report

Creative Corner » Post Your AI Art! » Post 30

Creative Corner » Image Analysis and Feedback Thread » Post 19

Zerowinger

3-3/4" Army Man Fan
@AIPonyAnon
Aside from the fact that Shining looks like he’s leaning to one side, I don’t see any issues with the image. I like the armor design you got on him and how it has his cutie mark as an emblem.
Posted Report

Site and Policy » Opening Thread » Post 122

Adorable Blue Fox

Got any cookies?
Does the dump include tag metadata like categories, descriptions, implications, and aliases?
Yes, it does. It also includes the tag changes.
I’ve already exported the difference between derpibooru and tantabus, which can be found here. However, this isn’t an import tool, just a list.
If the admins/mods want, I could also have that option in the import tool. I have the script ready already because I imported all the tags to my dev environment for testing, which has all the categories, descriptions, implications, aliases, and a few others. I just need to modify it to search for existing tags and update them.
Posted Report

Creative Corner » AI News » Post 1

Lord Waite

For AI News, MattVidPro does regular news videos about new AI things coming out:
https://www.youtube.com/@MattVidPro/videos
Nerdy Rodent has some pretty good AI art content, usually using ComfyUI:
https://www.youtube.com/@NerdyRodent/videos
Olivio Sarikas also puts out some good AI videos on things coming out:
https://www.youtube.com/@OlivioSarikas/videos
And there are some interesting things on Code Crafters Corner as well:
https://www.youtube.com/@CodeCraftersCorner/videos
And you’ve watched Civitai’s All things Pony v7 stream with AstraliteHeart by now, right?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pw1LwRUGY4

Tagging Discussion » "prompter:" should change to "artist:" » Post 44

Admin

Administrator
@Zealousmagician
“Editors” and “artists” have always had the same takedown policies, here and on derpi.
As for pure prompting, under the current jurisdiction we’re in, the copyright belongs to, and the prompter should dully attribute to, every single artist whose work was used in the training of the model(s) they’re using, and any financial gain made from the image distributed among them, or to a neutral fund for unknown artists whose work the model was trained on.
Which is stupid.
The rules here, and on derpi, are what they are because they’re the rules the admins decided on to make the site usable. If we had a stick up our asses over what The Law strictly says about copyright then none of us would be here on the internet sharing pictures of the My Little Pony© franchise.
Posted Report

Tagging Discussion » "prompter:" should change to "artist:" » Post 43

Zealousmagician

@Annalee
Thank you so much for reminding us to keep the implications of the word “artist” in mind, specifically in reference to EU copyright. I’m delighted to say that you’ve inspired me to do some research on the matter, and the results were very surprising: https://pure.uva.nl/ws/files/65585680/Hugenholtz_Quintais2021_Article_CopyrightAndArtificialCreation.pdf
In this paper, they actually agree with me completely; the mere act of selection in the process of creating AI art will by default make the image copyrightable as it becomes an expression of the person prompting and selecting the image! Our discussion here seems to be right on point for the issue at hand. I’ll highlight the most relevant bits here:
In some cases, the redaction role of the human user will be reduced to that of selecting or refusing ready-made output generated by the AI system. This raises an interesting question from a copyright perspective. Clearly, the mere act of selecting may be one of many factors contributing to a finding of originality. But what if selecting one AI output from several is the only choice left to the user? Like many other questions raised by AI, this is not a novel issue.
In the past, the emergence of non-traditional art forms such as the ready-mades created by conceptualist artists, have triggered similar questions. What is it that elevates a pre-existing artefact such as a prefabricated urinal or a bicycle wheel to a work of art – and, by implication, to a work of authorship? According to Swiss copyright scholar Kummer, the decisive creative act here is converting the (in itself unprotectable) idea of a ‘‘ready-made’’ into copyright protected expression by presenting the artefact (the objet trouve´) as a work of art. Kummer’s ‘‘presentation theory’’ implies that the mere act of selecting a pre-existing object suffices to convert the object into a work. While Kummer’s theory has been embraced by some copyright scholars, it remains controversial. In any case, personal selection undoubtedly contributes to a finding of originality in AI-assisted output.
and also:
Proving or enforcing authorship or copyright ownership of a work may sometimes be difficult in practice. For this reason, many Member States provide for rules that establish a (rebuttable) presumption of authorship or copyright ownership, in that the person indicated on or with the published work as the author is deemed to be the author, unless proven otherwise. The Berne Convention and the Enforcement Directive validate such legal presumptions and allow the person whose name ‘‘appear[s] on the work in the usual manner’’ to instigate infringement procedures.
It seems that by default, almost all AI works uploaded are copyrightable! Given the specifics of this paper, it seems that we truly did need reminding of what makes the artist tag special- and fortunately it legally applies to nearly everyone uploading AI works by default. I hope this helps 💕
Posted Report

Creative Corner » AI News » Topic Opener

mp40

Hey, I’m starting this thread to save n share some cool videos, but I also im trying to collate some of these ai video and image tools, feel free to share your faves too, since they might inspire what we make.
Posted Report

Creative Corner » Logical or not? » Post 2

mp40

I’m curious about the subtle differences between chatbots. Sometimes it feels like they’re all just the same LLM with a thin roleplay layer on top.
Like, Fluttershy shouldn’t automatically give advice on optimizing Stable Diffusion prompts, but I’d like to be able to guide her in that direction to personalize the character to my liking.
Posted Report

Site and Policy » Opening Thread » Post 121

Background Pony #9ED6
Tagging (and filtering by it) would be good, but I’m not sure there’s the bandwidth for that; as in, uploaders probably wouldn’t tag their own stuff with “negative tags”, so there’d need to be a fair number of active users going around curating each image. It would be an additional workload, albeit distributed on more people that just mods, and avoid “unnecessary deletions”, but could also fail if there aren’t enough people going at it.
The bandwidth will be demanded in any circumstance; uploaders will be expected to notice aberrant qualities and either refrain from posting, or tag them, and because people are imperfect, users will thereafter be expected to notice them and either report or fix missing tags. There are tradeoffs in the differences between the workloads - it’s more work for uploaders and users to notice and identify all of the specific abnormalities to tag each of them in a useful way, vs. more work for moderators to review and take action on any image that would need deletion. In either case, there would also be roughly equal moderation workload to hand out repercussions to uploaders who routinely break the rules, whether the rule is to tag or to refrain from posting.

Annalee: I wonder though if that limit could be controlled with the same switch that says whether your uploads go into the approval queue or not? I’ll ask staff.
Update: This is possible, but will take some work to achieve. Sorry for the inconvenience in the meantime.
BigBuggyBastage: Seems like the easy solution would be to maintain the tagging limit on anonymous/BgP users, and substantially increase it for registered users (or at least those who’ve been around for a while).
Annalee: I think that might be how we head - just like what currently happens for people uploading images.
As far as I know, that is in fact already the way philomena works: “verified” accounts are not subject to the tag change limits, while logged-out and “unverified” accounts are. Account verification is performed by moderators by hand, intended to be based only on the user’s record of good behavior on the site, not any kind of “verification” of identity like the word often means on other social media. The site is supposed to automatically alert moderators about accounts who have uploaded their 5th approved image to be reviewed for verification. That’s the exact same state as for being exempt from the approval queue.
There’s also a special permission for especially trusted accounts to be exempt from the 5-second interval between tag changes - I have that over on Derpibooru. Haven’t registered here yet, though.

I just looked at the nightly dump […]
Does the dump include tag metadata like categories, descriptions, implications, and aliases? While certainly there is a lot in there that’s totally irrelevant here (like artist tags and their aliases) there is also a LOT lot that still would be, like shipping tags and characters. There’s an open invitation to figure out a tool to import tag configurations.
Posted Report

Tagging Discussion » "prompter:" should change to "artist:" » Post 42

Annalee

Moderator
Adjutant
I’m loving the respectful and engaging conversation here—so nice to see! 💕 Just a quick reminder: the word artist is special because it’s tied to the rules. While someone having that as a tag doesn’t grant magical powers or guarantee every request or report is acted on, in our rules under the EU Copyright Directive (and to some extent the DMCA), being an artist implies they have copyrightable works. So we have to handle their reports fairly and responsibly to protect the site, including the possibility of takedowns—which I’d really like to avoid. So, sorry for repeating myself, I’d really like to avoid us using that word in any way that doesn’t match how it’s used in the rules.
Posted Report

Site and Policy » Opening Thread » Post 120

Admin

Administrator
Heyas; huge thanks for working on this! Once you’re happy with the code one of the more technically minded mods will have a look into getting it working.
Posted Report

Creative Corner » Image Analysis and Feedback Thread » Post 18

AIPonyAnon

I realized it after upscaling and couldn’t get any outpainting to work well. I had hoped to add another section on the right-hand side in the hopes that it would balance the image a little better. Would be interested to hear if anyone has thoughts on if/why this has compositional issues, and ways you might fix it.

Site and Policy » Opening Thread » Post 119

Site and Policy » Opening Thread » Post 118

Site and Policy » Opening Thread » Post 117

Site and Policy » Opening Thread » Post 116

Admin

Administrator
@Minus
Well, that’s a summary of intent; the actual rule wording there is
Do not attempt to deceive or mislead regarding the origins or creators of an image. Regarding artists in the pony and furry fandoms, this can include copying their signature, or perfectly mimicking their unique style (combined with themes) to the point viewers would believe it’s their work.

Site and Policy » Opening Thread » Post 115

Minus

“Style copying” only affects when the style is mimicked perfectly
Is the kind of confusing phrasing I expected and feared. Because even the artists themselves don’t get their own style perfect sometimes. The intent of this rule should be stated without room for misunderstandings like flagging art for being “too good” in one person’s eyes. This is the last thing you mods should want. So remove that line entirely and just focus on the impersonation part, whether it be intentional, or accidental by including an AI generated artist’s signature. These are the problems that need reporting, not for every piece of art posted here with detailed anatomy to get misflagged as copying aer0 zer0.

Creative Corner » Zebrasub generation (18+) » Topic Opener

Xada

I have noticed that no matter what i do with Pony XL and AutismMix. When i try to pair a pony with a zebra, it will ALWAYS generate the zebra as the dominant partner. Even though i am trying to generate images where a zebra is a sub, it never works. Any ideas how i could actualy generate zebrasub?

Tagging Discussion » "prompter:" should change to "artist:" » Post 41

Zealousmagician

@Clopxie
You’re not misinterpreting my point don’t worry, I probably take a more radical mindset of how I see art and the artist.
Like if picking the favorite ones is what gives them artistic value or makes me the images’ artist, then what if I just generate 20 pics and dump them on a site without even looking at the results? Would they be less worthy of being called art, and would I even be considered as the artist?
I haven’t considered this idea so there might be a flaw in my thinking on this, but I think that they would be less worthy of being considered art, up until they’re perceived by someone else and that person considers them to have meaning. I don’t believe anyone would be considered the artist in this scenario without further action being taken. It might be equivalent to someone seeing a landscape in nature and seeing beauty in it.
I’m assuming in this scenario that the prompt or setup is random/disconnected enough from the images that you would not consider any intent or meaning on your behalf to have been present in the images generated, and that the act itself of generating them and uploading them without looking isn’t an intentional artistic choice of some sort. My answer would be more complicated if those assumptions are incorrect.
Or if I send them to someone else and they pick their favorites and post them online, would they be considered as the artist, even if they had nothing to do with the actual image generation?
If the aforementioned assumptions are in place, I think the person picking their favorites would be the artist, yes. Akin to someone viewing a naturally occurring element and taking a photograph of it to share with others.
I just think that the current prompter/artist/ai assisted artist labels are distinctive and descriptive enough for there to not be any need to start trying to redefine them.
I don’t like that the editor tag applies for AI composition works at the moment, but since there’s talks about changing that I’ve decided to hold off on my reasoning for my beliefs regarding that. For images with minor editing, I still think it should be artist and not editor, not only in the case of technically being correct but also in terms of tag usefulness and accuracy, but I again will refrain from giving my reasoning since I don’t think anyone will seriously consider that idea.

Tagging Discussion » "prompter:" should change to "artist:" » Post 40

LemonDrop

That’s like saying that a traditional artist isn’t actually an artist because the pencil does the work and the human only provides it with the inputs.
Yes that’s what you’re saying, just like it’s weird to say someone isn’t an artist just because the AI does the rendering and the human only provides the prompts. Obviously that is a silly thing to say which is why I pointed it out.
If you tell another person to draw something based on your inputs, that person is the artist.
Yes and no. Commissioners are artists as much as the people who draw the commission, but obviously the one drawing it is doing most the effort and that is usually what is more important. It’s a joint effort though, the final piece would not exist without both people’s input. Derpi does tag commissioners for this purpose as their specific desires and artistic vision is still something people may want to see more of, they just have a specific name like “commissioner”, but they are an artist in the general sense too.
As a bonus question, if I’m trying to prompt for a very specific image, but the AI interprets it wrong and comes up with something different, but way better than what I had in mind, does it make it make me a good artist for getting good looking results, or a bad artist for not getting the results I wanted?
That happens all the time in other art too, sometimes you make an incorrect brushstroke and you decide to go with it. More often, what is actually feasible is not the same as what you will envision, but you’ll likely discover something neat along the way that is a compromise with your desires. Very common in bigger things like game development, as what’s in your mind is often too complex in some regard to actually implement, so just gotta make compromises in your vision.

Tagging Discussion » "prompter:" should change to "artist:" » Post 39

Clopxie

@Zealousmagician
I get what you’re saying, but that seems like a pretty vague definition for an artist.
I tend to generate a ton of images and then pick my favorites and post them, and I suppose whether someone else thinks that gives them more artistic value is up to them. But at least I don’t think that makes me any more or less of an artist.
Like if picking the favorite ones is what gives them artistic value or makes me the images’ artist, then what if I just generate 20 pics and dump them on a site without even looking at the results? Would they be less worthy of being called art, and would I even be considered as the artist?
Or if I send them to someone else and they pick their favorites and post them online, would they be considered as the artist, even if they had nothing to do with the actual image generation?
I’m sorry in case I’m just misinterpreting your point, but that just seems like a really vague way to define what is art and who’s an artist. Though I know those topics have been debated long before AI art was even a thing, so I’m not expecting you or anyone else to have a concrete answer to what counts as an artist/art.
I just think that the current prompter/artist/ai assisted artist labels are distinctive and descriptive enough for there to not be any need to start trying to redefine them.

Tagging Discussion » "prompter:" should change to "artist:" » Post 38

Zealousmagician

@Clopxie
The mere act of selection based on criteria, of critique, is itself an art. If you generate many images and select a few because they are appealing to you in some way or inspire you, then when you share that, those images become a reflection of your judgement, of your personality- you have assigned them artistic value. Unless you are to say that they already had artistic value and that the machine is the artist, you must be the artist in this scenario because the only artistic meaning held in those images comes from you personally. An example of what exactly can qualify as art can be seen in the famous Duchamp’s Fountain and other readymades.
In your hypothetical, you aren’t an artist until you’ve applied judgement to the image generated and decided on if you now find it to have value.
I won’t argue for more than having significant edits be considered for the artist tag, because I know I would only be wasting my time. I only wished to add my thoughts on this part of the discussion.

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