FlatterDeN_AI
Суетолог
When I filed complaints about “Disrespectful attitude towards AI content” They were simply closed without consequences, what the hell discussion were they talking about?! A WHOLE YEAR!
Opening Thread
Zerowinger
3-3/4" Army Man Fan
@FlatterDeN_AI
There are plenty of staff who enjoy AI stuff (some of them are even over here, I believe), it’s just that it was apparently causing too much of a moderation problem to properly deal with.
There are plenty of staff who enjoy AI stuff (some of them are even over here, I believe), it’s just that it was apparently causing too much of a moderation problem to properly deal with.
Now with that said, yeah, some of the people over on Derpi are real dicks when it comes to AI art and AI content creators - calling them “pseudo artists” or “art thieves” and that AI art is “slop” - which, given some of these people’s own artistic contributions, brings to mind that old phrase about stones and glass houses.
Admin
Administrator
@AIPonyAnon
That should be added now, thanks!
That should be added now, thanks!
@BigBuggyBastage
As mentioned, that’s OK; ideally there’d be something that lets people know about it to avoid error or confusion.
As mentioned, that’s OK; ideally there’d be something that lets people know about it to avoid error or confusion.
@IWTCIPP
Tagging (and filtering by it) would be good, but I’m not sure there’s the bandwidth for that; as in, uploaders probably wouldn’t tag their own stuff with “negative tags”, so there’d need to be a fair number of active users going around curating each image. It would be an additional workload, albeit distributed on more people that just mods, and avoid “unnecessary deletions”, but could also fail if there aren’t enough people going at it.
Tagging (and filtering by it) would be good, but I’m not sure there’s the bandwidth for that; as in, uploaders probably wouldn’t tag their own stuff with “negative tags”, so there’d need to be a fair number of active users going around curating each image. It would be an additional workload, albeit distributed on more people that just mods, and avoid “unnecessary deletions”, but could also fail if there aren’t enough people going at it.
It’s something worth revisiting down the line, though.
@Background Pony #BAD9
It’s my hope that this site will have a fair amount of activity and that people can come here when they want to get a wall of nice pics, well organized pics, without dealing with the terror that is CivitAI or DA’s search/filtering systems.
It’s my hope that this site will have a fair amount of activity and that people can come here when they want to get a wall of nice pics, well organized pics, without dealing with the terror that is CivitAI or DA’s search/filtering systems.
For comments, there is a possibilty (but not a guarantee) that we’ll be able to copy those over.
For funding, everything is separate from both derpibooru and furbooru (and those from eachother). It makes accounting for what’s using (and costing) what, but also gives some surety that if one site gets hit by an orbital laser, the others will be fine. Currently the cost of running this place is fairly low, definitely not a concern, so I’m happy to carry it for the foreseeable future. If costs increase (which would probably be a symptom of a Good Thing), then I’ll look into the same sort of stuff used on derpi (donations and non-network ads).
@FlatterDeN_AI
@Zerowinger
Unfortunately the subject of AI (particularly for art) has a lot of… “passion” in it. I can understand where a lot of traditional artists are coming from, I’ve been in several AI focused discords (and other places) where people boast and relish in artists losing commission money, going unemployed, being made obsolete, etc. While those people may be a minority, their hateful or cruel comments are what leaks out and gets heard by a lot of artists, that then assume everyone that’s ever touched an AI generator is personally out to leave them destitute in the streets.
@Zerowinger
Unfortunately the subject of AI (particularly for art) has a lot of… “passion” in it. I can understand where a lot of traditional artists are coming from, I’ve been in several AI focused discords (and other places) where people boast and relish in artists losing commission money, going unemployed, being made obsolete, etc. While those people may be a minority, their hateful or cruel comments are what leaks out and gets heard by a lot of artists, that then assume everyone that’s ever touched an AI generator is personally out to leave them destitute in the streets.
I really don’t know what to do about that; I wish people could just calm down and that assholes would go to therapy or deal with their anger some other way, but I’m just some guy.
We’d really hoped to have launched far far sooner and had more tech and policy issues sorted and tested out before now, but several major Real Life events got in the way that took priority. I’m hoping we can work out the kinks quickly and smoothly enough, but do ask for some patience while things are still in progress. If you have concerns or suggestions, we do want to hear them; there’s stuff we’ve already changed from it, and don’t see a reason to just set everything in stone now.
Adusak90
“Reminder that tagging is important”
I’d love to help with the missing tags, but sometimes there are pictures with like 2 green tags and when I wanna do the tags there’s this annoying limit “ToO mAnY tAgS cHaNgEd”. Like, this picture had 2 tags, of course I need to add like 20 of them to the picture because the uploader didn’t care at all. JUST LET ME!
Annalee
Moderator
Adjutant
@Adusak90
Hmmm … that is true. The reason that limit exists is because of someone who used to vandalize tags. You might have seen them on other sites, like Ponybooru, changing all of the tags on images to
Hmmm … that is true. The reason that limit exists is because of someone who used to vandalize tags. You might have seen them on other sites, like Ponybooru, changing all of the tags on images to
cbat, or re-rating explicit images as safe.I wonder though if that limit could be controlled with the same switch that says whether your uploads go into the approval queue or not? I’ll ask staff.
Update: This is possible, but will take some work to achieve. Sorry for the inconvenience in the meantime.
WestRail642fan
sorry if this is the wrong thread to ask this, but will this site get a proper dark theme like that over on Derpibooru?
Annalee
Moderator
Adjutant
@WestRail642fan
There is both a dark and a red theme - I assume you’ve already tried those and they weren’t what you wanted. When you say ‘proper’ are you talking about a theme on another site that we could look at to get a better idea what you mean?
There is both a dark and a red theme - I assume you’ve already tried those and they weren’t what you wanted. When you say ‘proper’ are you talking about a theme on another site that we could look at to get a better idea what you mean?
WestRail642fan
@Annalee
By dark, i mean the more bluer dark theme as used by derpibooru. I am currently using this sites dark theme however
By dark, i mean the more bluer dark theme as used by derpibooru. I am currently using this sites dark theme however
BigBuggyBastage
Go fsck yourself
@Annalee
Seems like the easy solution would be to maintain the tagging limit on anonymous/BgP users, and substantially increase it for registered users (or at least those who’ve been around for a while).
Seems like the easy solution would be to maintain the tagging limit on anonymous/BgP users, and substantially increase it for registered users (or at least those who’ve been around for a while).
Annalee
Moderator
Adjutant
@BigBuggyBastage
I think that might be how we head - just like what currently happens for people uploading images.
I think that might be how we head - just like what currently happens for people uploading images.
Admin
Administrator
Unfortunate news; due to a major project ongoing for philo and limited dev resources, it’s looking fairly unlikely there will be any official porting of comments.
Someone wanting to have a crack at it should poke us first to avoid any sudden rate limits or potential bugs (comment reading is available through current API, posting however is not).
Sorry
Adorable Blue Fox
Got any cookies?
I can collect all the
ai content image comments; I have the script ready.There are an estimated 29,381 images in total, with at least one comment on the first 317 pages (50 images per page) sorted on comment count.
I will collect the images with a 5 second delay between each request to avoid rate-limiting and server performance issues.
So, it’ll take approximately 23 hours to process all the images with comments.
For now, I will store the collected comments until Philomena’s development allows for importing comments. When that capability is available, we can decide whether to assign all comments to anonymous users, considering that most users who initially made the comments won’t exist on this site.
I have my dev environment for Philomena, so I’ll likely work on a solution for this. No promises at this stage, though.
Let me know whether to proceed or if you need any details from me.
EDIT:
I just looked at the nightly dump and found that the comments are part of it. Technically, the script to save all the comments via API is useless, and I can do it locally.
The only difference between the API and the dump is the saving of the user profile picture at that time, but if the comments are going to be posted anonymously or something else entirely, then it wouldn’t matter.
EDIT 2:
All the comments are now exported, and there are a total of 50,548 comments on images with the tag
ai content and 42,435 comments on ai generated. I will have to export again before January 6, 2025, to get the most updated information. Adusak90
@Annalee
I was mostly just jesting with it (though it is annoying to someone who really likes to add random tags) as I know it was put in place as a preventive measure and it’s better safe than sorry with vandals. I know that since I used to battle with them on wikis back in the day.
I was mostly just jesting with it (though it is annoying to someone who really likes to add random tags) as I know it was put in place as a preventive measure and it’s better safe than sorry with vandals. I know that since I used to battle with them on wikis back in the day.
I was just caught off guard since I don’t recall something like this being on Derpi back when I had energy, motivation and time to add “[species] oc” tags every day.
Background Pony #B191
@Adorable Blue Fox
Thank you, adorable blue fox!
Thank you, adorable blue fox!
I was wondering if I’d have to port some “story in the comments” over manually. So you’re confident you’ll be able to help get the comments imported and posted to the right pages mostly automatically?
Adorable Blue Fox
Got any cookies?
I’ve created the import tool and successfully tested it in my development environment. Here’s a preview of a small sample of the data it migrated:
Features:
- Comment Importation: Seamlessly imports comments from a CSV file exported from the Derpibooru nightly dump into a PostgreSQL database.
- Comment Updates: Updates existing comments in the database if they already exist, utilizing a mapped JSON file created during the first run.
- User Anonymity Handling: Manages user anonymity for users who do not exist in the system.
- Comment Suffix Details: Adds suffix details to comments based on user existence status.
- Configurable Import Delay: Processes comments with a configurable delay between each import.
- Batch Importing: Imports comments in batches, optimizing performance.
- Callback Features: Includes callback functionality for various columns such as:
- Match users based on usernames (since IDs differ across sites)
- link comments to images based on descriptions containing the source URL and ID.
Additionally, if preferred the import user can be anonymous:
Just need to do some edge casing & checks and I’ll share the code, and it’ll need to be run by someone who has PostgreSQL access.
Minus
Is the kind of confusing phrasing I expected and feared. Because even the artists themselves don’t get their own style perfect sometimes. The intent of this rule should be stated without room for misunderstandings like flagging art for being “too good” in one person’s eyes. This is the last thing you mods should want. So remove that line entirely and just focus on the impersonation part, whether it be intentional, or accidental by including an AI generated artist’s signature. These are the problems that need reporting, not for every piece of art posted here with detailed anatomy to get misflagged as copying aer0 zer0.
“Style copying” only affects when the style is mimicked perfectlyIs the kind of confusing phrasing I expected and feared. Because even the artists themselves don’t get their own style perfect sometimes. The intent of this rule should be stated without room for misunderstandings like flagging art for being “too good” in one person’s eyes. This is the last thing you mods should want. So remove that line entirely and just focus on the impersonation part, whether it be intentional, or accidental by including an AI generated artist’s signature. These are the problems that need reporting, not for every piece of art posted here with detailed anatomy to get misflagged as copying aer0 zer0.
Admin
Administrator
@Minus
Well, that’s a summary of intent; the actual rule wording there is
Well, that’s a summary of intent; the actual rule wording there is
Do not attempt to deceive or mislead regarding the origins or creators of an image. Regarding artists in the pony and furry fandoms, this can include copying their signature, or perfectly mimicking their unique style (combined with themes) to the point viewers would believe it’s their work.
tyto4tme4l
Something of an artist
@Adorable Blue Fox
It’s amazing, having the comments imported would be great.
It’s amazing, having the comments imported would be great.
Background Pony #E65B
@Adorable Blue Fox
Thanks for doing that instead of manually copying over just the relevant comments on
Thanks for doing that instead of manually copying over just the relevant comments on
story in the comments images. Background Pony #E65B
@Background Pony #E65B
Now I’m reminded why I always change away from the default theme: makes it obvious when I’m a logged outcel.
Now I’m reminded why I always change away from the default theme: makes it obvious when I’m a logged outcel.
Admin
Administrator
Heyas; huge thanks for working on this! Once you’re happy with the code one of the more technically minded mods will have a look into getting it working.
Background Pony #9ED6
Tagging (and filtering by it) would be good, but I’m not sure there’s the bandwidth for that; as in, uploaders probably wouldn’t tag their own stuff with “negative tags”, so there’d need to be a fair number of active users going around curating each image. It would be an additional workload, albeit distributed on more people that just mods, and avoid “unnecessary deletions”, but could also fail if there aren’t enough people going at it.
The bandwidth will be demanded in any circumstance; uploaders will be expected to notice aberrant qualities and either refrain from posting, or tag them, and because people are imperfect, users will thereafter be expected to notice them and either report or fix missing tags. There are tradeoffs in the differences between the workloads - it’s more work for uploaders and users to notice and identify all of the specific abnormalities to tag each of them in a useful way, vs. more work for moderators to review and take action on any image that would need deletion. In either case, there would also be roughly equal moderation workload to hand out repercussions to uploaders who routinely break the rules, whether the rule is to tag or to refrain from posting.
Annalee: I wonder though if that limit could be controlled with the same switch that says whether your uploads go into the approval queue or not? I’ll ask staff.Update: This is possible, but will take some work to achieve. Sorry for the inconvenience in the meantime.BigBuggyBastage: Seems like the easy solution would be to maintain the tagging limit on anonymous/BgP users, and substantially increase it for registered users (or at least those who’ve been around for a while).Annalee: I think that might be how we head - just like what currently happens for people uploading images.
As far as I know, that is in fact already the way philomena works: “verified” accounts are not subject to the tag change limits, while logged-out and “unverified” accounts are. Account verification is performed by moderators by hand, intended to be based only on the user’s record of good behavior on the site, not any kind of “verification” of identity like the word often means on other social media. The site is supposed to automatically alert moderators about accounts who have uploaded their 5th approved image to be reviewed for verification. That’s the exact same state as for being exempt from the approval queue.
There’s also a special permission for especially trusted accounts to be exempt from the 5-second interval between tag changes - I have that over on Derpibooru. Haven’t registered here yet, though.
I just looked at the nightly dump […]
Does the dump include tag metadata like categories, descriptions, implications, and aliases? While certainly there is a lot in there that’s totally irrelevant here (like artist tags and their aliases) there is also a LOT lot that still would be, like shipping tags and characters. There’s an open invitation to figure out a tool to import tag configurations.
Adorable Blue Fox
Got any cookies?
Does the dump include tag metadata like categories, descriptions, implications, and aliases?
Yes, it does. It also includes the tag changes.
I’ve already exported the difference between derpibooru and tantabus, which can be found here. However, this isn’t an import tool, just a list.
If the admins/mods want, I could also have that option in the import tool. I have the script ready already because I imported all the tags to my dev environment for testing, which has all the categories, descriptions, implications, aliases, and a few others. I just need to modify it to search for existing tags and update them.
Admin
Administrator
@Background Pony #9ED6
The “Verified” status and tag limit are currently separate. One of the devs has been poked about making them dependent.
The “Verified” status and tag limit are currently separate. One of the devs has been poked about making them dependent.
Would a list like this make sense for “tags we care about”, along with an additional “Quality” default filter that includes these (plus, say,
score.lte:-25)?ghost signature
obtrusive watermark
bad hands -> bad anatomy
deformed limbs -> bad anatomy
merging body -> bad anatomy
bad face -> bad anatomy
bad bg character
bad details
bad background
bad text
Separately, I was prodded elsewhere by someone “asking” why we ban style LORAs; I don’t know where this comes from but the term “LORA” isn’t even anywhere in our rules, and the rules (as amended recently based on, you know, people actually talking with us) and FAQ are fairly clear that we only really care about impersonation; as in, genning an image in the style of Artist Bob in order to take commissions as Bob, or creating “contentious stuff” that others might think Bob made themselves and would affect their reputation.
IWTCIPP
@Admin
That tag list seems about right. I would want to see clear descriptions for each tag explaining when they do and don’t apply (presumably each is meant to relate to some section of the quality guidelines) as otherwise things like “bad details” are very vague, but aside from that I don’t see anything concerning.
That tag list seems about right. I would want to see clear descriptions for each tag explaining when they do and don’t apply (presumably each is meant to relate to some section of the quality guidelines) as otherwise things like “bad details” are very vague, but aside from that I don’t see anything concerning.
The lowest scoring image on the site is currently at -10, so the score threshold should probably be higher for now. I also think it might make sense to have exceptions for
grimdark and grotesque images, since a low score for those can mean they’re actually high quality (and thus succeed in being upsetting/disgusting). Maybe have (score.lte:-5, -grimdark, -grotesque)?