When I filed complaints about āDisrespectful attitude towards AI contentā They were simply closed without consequences, what the hell discussion were they talking about?! A WHOLE YEAR!
Opening Thread
@FlatterDeN_AI
There are plenty of staff who enjoy AI stuff (some of them are even over here, I believe), itās just that it was apparently causing too much of a moderation problem to properly deal with.
There are plenty of staff who enjoy AI stuff (some of them are even over here, I believe), itās just that it was apparently causing too much of a moderation problem to properly deal with.
Now with that said, yeah, some of the people over on Derpi are real dicks when it comes to AI art and AI content creators - calling them āpseudo artistsā or āart thievesā and that AI art is āslopā - which, given some of these peopleās own artistic contributions, brings to mind that old phrase about stones and glass houses.
@AIPonyAnon
That should be added now, thanks!
That should be added now, thanks!
@BigBuggyBastage
As mentioned, thatās OK; ideally thereād be something that lets people know about it to avoid error or confusion.
As mentioned, thatās OK; ideally thereād be something that lets people know about it to avoid error or confusion.
@IWTCIPP
Tagging (and filtering by it) would be good, but Iām not sure thereās the bandwidth for that; as in, uploaders probably wouldnāt tag their own stuff with ānegative tagsā, so thereād need to be a fair number of active users going around curating each image. It would be an additional workload, albeit distributed on more people that just mods, and avoid āunnecessary deletionsā, but could also fail if there arenāt enough people going at it.
Tagging (and filtering by it) would be good, but Iām not sure thereās the bandwidth for that; as in, uploaders probably wouldnāt tag their own stuff with ānegative tagsā, so thereād need to be a fair number of active users going around curating each image. It would be an additional workload, albeit distributed on more people that just mods, and avoid āunnecessary deletionsā, but could also fail if there arenāt enough people going at it.
Itās something worth revisiting down the line, though.
@Background Pony #BAD9
Itās my hope that this site will have a fair amount of activity and that people can come here when they want to get a wall of nice pics, well organized pics, without dealing with the terror that is CivitAI or DAās search/filtering systems.
Itās my hope that this site will have a fair amount of activity and that people can come here when they want to get a wall of nice pics, well organized pics, without dealing with the terror that is CivitAI or DAās search/filtering systems.
For comments, there is a possibilty (but not a guarantee) that weāll be able to copy those over.
For funding, everything is separate from both derpibooru and furbooru (and those from eachother). It makes accounting for whatās using (and costing) what, but also gives some surety that if one site gets hit by an orbital laser, the others will be fine. Currently the cost of running this place is fairly low, definitely not a concern, so Iām happy to carry it for the foreseeable future. If costs increase (which would probably be a symptom of a Good Thing), then Iāll look into the same sort of stuff used on derpi (donations and non-network ads).
@FlatterDeN_AI
@Zerowinger
Unfortunately the subject of AI (particularly for art) has a lot ofā¦ āpassionā in it. I can understand where a lot of traditional artists are coming from, Iāve been in several AI focused discords (and other places) where people boast and relish in artists losing commission money, going unemployed, being made obsolete, etc. While those people may be a minority, their hateful or cruel comments are what leaks out and gets heard by a lot of artists, that then assume everyone thatās ever touched an AI generator is personally out to leave them destitute in the streets.
@Zerowinger
Unfortunately the subject of AI (particularly for art) has a lot ofā¦ āpassionā in it. I can understand where a lot of traditional artists are coming from, Iāve been in several AI focused discords (and other places) where people boast and relish in artists losing commission money, going unemployed, being made obsolete, etc. While those people may be a minority, their hateful or cruel comments are what leaks out and gets heard by a lot of artists, that then assume everyone thatās ever touched an AI generator is personally out to leave them destitute in the streets.
I really donāt know what to do about that; I wish people could just calm down and that assholes would go to therapy or deal with their anger some other way, but Iām just some guy.
Weād really hoped to have launched far far sooner and had more tech and policy issues sorted and tested out before now, but several major Real Life events got in the way that took priority. Iām hoping we can work out the kinks quickly and smoothly enough, but do ask for some patience while things are still in progress. If you have concerns or suggestions, we do want to hear them; thereās stuff weāve already changed from it, and donāt see a reason to just set everything in stone now.
āReminder that tagging is importantā
Iād love to help with the missing tags, but sometimes there are pictures with like 2 green tags and when I wanna do the tags thereās this annoying limit āToO mAnY tAgS cHaNgEdā. Like, this picture had 2 tags, of course I need to add like 20 of them to the picture because the uploader didnāt care at all. JUST LET ME!
@Adusak90
Hmmm ā¦ that is true. The reason that limit exists is because of someone who used to vandalize tags. You might have seen them on other sites, like Ponybooru, changing all of the tags on images to
Hmmm ā¦ that is true. The reason that limit exists is because of someone who used to vandalize tags. You might have seen them on other sites, like Ponybooru, changing all of the tags on images to
cbat, or re-rating explicit images as safe.I wonder though if that limit could be controlled with the same switch that says whether your uploads go into the approval queue or not? Iāll ask staff.
Update: This is possible, but will take some work to achieve. Sorry for the inconvenience in the meantime.
sorry if this is the wrong thread to ask this, but will this site get a proper dark theme like that over on Derpibooru?
@WestRail642fan
There is both a dark and a red theme - I assume youāve already tried those and they werenāt what you wanted. When you say āproperā are you talking about a theme on another site that we could look at to get a better idea what you mean?
There is both a dark and a red theme - I assume youāve already tried those and they werenāt what you wanted. When you say āproperā are you talking about a theme on another site that we could look at to get a better idea what you mean?
@Annalee
By dark, i mean the more bluer dark theme as used by derpibooru. I am currently using this sites dark theme however
By dark, i mean the more bluer dark theme as used by derpibooru. I am currently using this sites dark theme however
@Annalee
Seems like the easy solution would be to maintain the tagging limit on anonymous/BgP users, and substantially increase it for registered users (or at least those whoāve been around for a while).
Seems like the easy solution would be to maintain the tagging limit on anonymous/BgP users, and substantially increase it for registered users (or at least those whoāve been around for a while).
@BigBuggyBastage
I think that might be how we head - just like what currently happens for people uploading images.
I think that might be how we head - just like what currently happens for people uploading images.
Unfortunate news; due to a major project ongoing for philo and limited dev resources, itās looking fairly unlikely there will be any official porting of comments.
Someone wanting to have a crack at it should poke us first to avoid any sudden rate limits or potential bugs (comment reading is available through current API, posting however is not).
Sorry
I can collect all the
ai content image comments; I have the script ready.There are an estimated 29,381 images in total, with at least one comment on the first 317 pages (50 images per page) sorted on comment count.
I will collect the images with a 5 second delay between each request to avoid rate-limiting and server performance issues.
So, itāll take approximately 23 hours to process all the images with comments.
For now, I will store the collected comments until Philomenaās development allows for importing comments. When that capability is available, we can decide whether to assign all comments to anonymous users, considering that most users who initially made the comments wonāt exist on this site.
I have my dev environment for Philomena, so Iāll likely work on a solution for this. No promises at this stage, though.
Let me know whether to proceed or if you need any details from me.
EDIT:
I just looked at the nightly dump and found that the comments are part of it. Technically, the script to save all the comments via API is useless, and I can do it locally.
The only difference between the API and the dump is the saving of the user profile picture at that time, but if the comments are going to be posted anonymously or something else entirely, then it wouldnāt matter.
EDIT 2:
All the comments are now exported, and there are a total of 50,548 comments on images with the tag
ai content and 42,435 comments on ai generated. I will have to export again before January 6, 2025, to get the most updated information.@Annalee
I was mostly just jesting with it (though it is annoying to someone who really likes to add random tags) as I know it was put in place as a preventive measure and itās better safe than sorry with vandals. I know that since I used to battle with them on wikis back in the day.
I was mostly just jesting with it (though it is annoying to someone who really likes to add random tags) as I know it was put in place as a preventive measure and itās better safe than sorry with vandals. I know that since I used to battle with them on wikis back in the day.
I was just caught off guard since I donāt recall something like this being on Derpi back when I had energy, motivation and time to add ā[species] ocā tags every day.
Background Pony #B191
@Adorable Blue Fox
Thank you, adorable blue fox!
Thank you, adorable blue fox!
I was wondering if Iād have to port some āstory in the commentsā over manually. So youāre confident youāll be able to help get the comments imported and posted to the right pages mostly automatically?
Iāve created the import tool and successfully tested it in my development environment. Hereās a preview of a small sample of the data it migrated:
Features:
- Comment Importation: Seamlessly imports comments from a CSV file exported from the Derpibooru nightly dump into a PostgreSQL database.
- Comment Updates: Updates existing comments in the database if they already exist, utilizing a mapped JSON file created during the first run.
- User Anonymity Handling: Manages user anonymity for users who do not exist in the system.
- Comment Suffix Details: Adds suffix details to comments based on user existence status.
- Configurable Import Delay: Processes comments with a configurable delay between each import.
- Batch Importing: Imports comments in batches, optimizing performance.
- Callback Features: Includes callback functionality for various columns such as:
- Match users based on usernames (since IDs differ across sites)
- link comments to images based on descriptions containing the source URL and ID.
Additionally, if preferred the import user can be anonymous:
Just need to do some edge casing & checks and Iāll share the code, and itāll need to be run by someone who has PostgreSQL access.
āStyle copyingā only affects when the style is mimicked perfectlyIs the kind of confusing phrasing I expected and feared. Because even the artists themselves donāt get their own style perfect sometimes. The intent of this rule should be stated without room for misunderstandings like flagging art for being ātoo goodā in one personās eyes. This is the last thing you mods should want. So remove that line entirely and just focus on the impersonation part, whether it be intentional, or accidental by including an AI generated artistās signature. These are the problems that need reporting, not for every piece of art posted here with detailed anatomy to get misflagged as copying aer0 zer0.
@Minus
Well, thatās a summary of intent; the actual rule wording there is
Well, thatās a summary of intent; the actual rule wording there is
Do not attempt to deceive or mislead regarding the origins or creators of an image. Regarding artists in the pony and furry fandoms, this can include copying their signature, or perfectly mimicking their unique style (combined with themes) to the point viewers would believe itās their work.
@Adorable Blue Fox
Itās amazing, having the comments imported would be great.
Itās amazing, having the comments imported would be great.
Background Pony #E65B
@Adorable Blue Fox
Thanks for doing that instead of manually copying over just the relevant comments on
Thanks for doing that instead of manually copying over just the relevant comments on
story in the comments images. Background Pony #E65B
@Background Pony #E65B
Now Iām reminded why I always change away from the default theme: makes it obvious when Iām a logged outcel.
Now Iām reminded why I always change away from the default theme: makes it obvious when Iām a logged outcel.
Heyas; huge thanks for working on this! Once youāre happy with the code one of the more technically minded mods will have a look into getting it working.
Background Pony #9ED6
Tagging (and filtering by it) would be good, but Iām not sure thereās the bandwidth for that; as in, uploaders probably wouldnāt tag their own stuff with ānegative tagsā, so thereād need to be a fair number of active users going around curating each image. It would be an additional workload, albeit distributed on more people that just mods, and avoid āunnecessary deletionsā, but could also fail if there arenāt enough people going at it.
The bandwidth will be demanded in any circumstance; uploaders will be expected to notice aberrant qualities and either refrain from posting, or tag them, and because people are imperfect, users will thereafter be expected to notice them and either report or fix missing tags. There are tradeoffs in the differences between the workloads - itās more work for uploaders and users to notice and identify all of the specific abnormalities to tag each of them in a useful way, vs. more work for moderators to review and take action on any image that would need deletion. In either case, there would also be roughly equal moderation workload to hand out repercussions to uploaders who routinely break the rules, whether the rule is to tag or to refrain from posting.
Annalee: I wonder though if that limit could be controlled with the same switch that says whether your uploads go into the approval queue or not? Iāll ask staff.Update: This is possible, but will take some work to achieve. Sorry for the inconvenience in the meantime.BigBuggyBastage: Seems like the easy solution would be to maintain the tagging limit on anonymous/BgP users, and substantially increase it for registered users (or at least those whoāve been around for a while).Annalee: I think that might be how we head - just like what currently happens for people uploading images.
As far as I know, that is in fact already the way philomena works: āverifiedā accounts are not subject to the tag change limits, while logged-out and āunverifiedā accounts are. Account verification is performed by moderators by hand, intended to be based only on the userās record of good behavior on the site, not any kind of āverificationā of identity like the word often means on other social media. The site is supposed to automatically alert moderators about accounts who have uploaded their 5th approved image to be reviewed for verification. Thatās the exact same state as for being exempt from the approval queue.
Thereās also a special permission for especially trusted accounts to be exempt from the 5-second interval between tag changes - I have that over on Derpibooru. Havenāt registered here yet, though.
I just looked at the nightly dump [ā¦]
Does the dump include tag metadata like categories, descriptions, implications, and aliases? While certainly there is a lot in there thatās totally irrelevant here (like artist tags and their aliases) there is also a LOT lot that still would be, like shipping tags and characters. Thereās an open invitation to figure out a tool to import tag configurations.
Does the dump include tag metadata like categories, descriptions, implications, and aliases?
Yes, it does. It also includes the tag changes.
Iāve already exported the difference between derpibooru and tantabus, which can be found here. However, this isnāt an import tool, just a list.
If the admins/mods want, I could also have that option in the import tool. I have the script ready already because I imported all the tags to my dev environment for testing, which has all the categories, descriptions, implications, aliases, and a few others. I just need to modify it to search for existing tags and update them.
@Background Pony #9ED6
The āVerifiedā status and tag limit are currently separate. One of the devs has been poked about making them dependent.
The āVerifiedā status and tag limit are currently separate. One of the devs has been poked about making them dependent.
Would a list like this make sense for ātags we care aboutā, along with an additional āQualityā default filter that includes these (plus, say,
score.lte:-25)?ghost signature
obtrusive watermark
bad hands -> bad anatomy
deformed limbs -> bad anatomy
merging body -> bad anatomy
bad face -> bad anatomy
bad bg character
bad details
bad background
bad text
Separately, I was prodded elsewhere by someone āaskingā why we ban style LORAs; I donāt know where this comes from but the term āLORAā isnāt even anywhere in our rules, and the rules (as amended recently based on, you know, people actually talking with us) and FAQ are fairly clear that we only really care about impersonation; as in, genning an image in the style of Artist Bob in order to take commissions as Bob, or creating ācontentious stuffā that others might think Bob made themselves and would affect their reputation.
@Admin
That tag list seems about right. I would want to see clear descriptions for each tag explaining when they do and donāt apply (presumably each is meant to relate to some section of the quality guidelines) as otherwise things like ābad detailsā are very vague, but aside from that I donāt see anything concerning.
That tag list seems about right. I would want to see clear descriptions for each tag explaining when they do and donāt apply (presumably each is meant to relate to some section of the quality guidelines) as otherwise things like ābad detailsā are very vague, but aside from that I donāt see anything concerning.
The lowest scoring image on the site is currently at -10, so the score threshold should probably be higher for now. I also think it might make sense to have exceptions for
grimdark and grotesque images, since a low score for those can mean theyāre actually high quality (and thus succeed in being upsetting/disgusting). Maybe have (score.lte:-5, -grimdark, -grotesque)?